Interesting
This article might be useful for a beginning of the understanding of what happens to men and women in a committed relationship. The authors ponder that it is some evolutionary thing. Basically, men's sex drive remains the same. However, women's sex drive diminishes after making a "pair bond." Sounds like entrapment. A bait-and-switch. A bill of goods. I know that may sound misogynistic. Deep down, it probably is. Maybe women have a harder time letting go of past slights. They think too much. This doesn't make them more complex. It makes them neurotic. I may catch hell for writing those things, but there it is. Right now, with the place I'm in, it sums it up nicely. I might even add that women's libidos aren't the only thing that's higher in the beginning, but also they have a better personality and treat their significant other better.
Ok, flame away Gridley.
BTW, speaking of thinking too much, I'm still noodling the comments from the last post, especially Christian Husband's about declaring peace.
posted by aphron @ 12:50 PM
15 fools muttering
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15 Comments:
Hmmm...I agree with some, actually most, of that.
A lot of times, it seems as if a woman's sex drive diminishes when she "catches" her man, sort of like a man will stop trying to please so much when he gets married.
As a friend of mine put it so eloquently (heh)...when you're dating, sex is a pleasure palace. When you get married, it changes into a bargaining chip.
It ain't right...but I've seen it happen WAY too often for it to be just coincidence.
Well, personally I haven't found that those things are true.
Its probably true that my libido is a little lower, but constant rejection can do that to a person.
But in many ways, I treat my partner much better than I did in the beginning. When we were first together, I was younger and more selfish. I spent most of my time thinking about what *I* wanted and what *I* wasn't getting. I was very moody and demanding. Now, I think a lot more about how much I love him and what I can do for him. I think the experience of loving him and all the things we have been through together have basically refined my character a lot and made me a better and more giving person.
Not a perfect person, by any means, but a *better* person.
I hate reading these articles because I always feel so damn ABNORMAL afterwards.
In my case, his sex drive has done a complete 180 from when we were first together. Mine has actually gotten stronger as more time goes by in this relationship. (Which is crazy, all factors considered.) We are commited, living together, I've got a ring on my finger, etc etc. Our bond is sealed and yet my libido is going nowhere, and his is on this constant, slight decline.
"The rational for why a woman's sex drive declines may be down to supply and demand. If something is in infinite supply, the perceived value would drop."
Ok. Now I get it. My libido is not valuable to him because it's always there. He wants sex? He gets it. Any way he likes, any time he likes. The value is close to zero because he doesn't have to do any work for it. Someone previously commented on my blog when I wrote that my partner "wants" to be turned down like you see on sitcoms. He feeds into the societal notion that the woman should be desirable, but resistant to the man. Looks like I'm fucking this up for us by actually wanting to have sex with my long-term partner. Who knew?
Well, April sort of stole my point, but I'll make it anyway.
I saw this article when it hit the front page of fark. During that discussion, one of the female posters said something like, "Maybe this is just a reaction to how the GUYS change when the relationship is secure. They don't feel the need to wine and dine and romance their partners and instead just feel like she should just lay back and spread them whenever he feels the need."
We are talking about a relationship problem and, like all relationship problems, is a problem with the relationship -- both people, together. Both are at fault. Both have hand in it.
Men and women approach sex differently. I've come to believe that, while sex is something men do, it is something far more fundamental to women. It isn't something they do, it is something they are. Sex is all tied up in who they are as a person, the details of the relationship, etc. Which is why they generally react in completely opposite ways from men when it comes to sex. I could ramble on about this forever, but the point I'm making is that, if the man stops chasing her and wooing her and courting her then she'll react differently sexually.
Not all women are like that, and in fact not all men are like that either. It just takes two people finding like sex drives.
I like the supply and demand theory.
I DON'T like the supply and demand theory. And I was going to talk about why, but it turned out to be waaaaaay too long, so I just made it it's own post on my blog.
Simple fact:
It often occurs that in a relationship that sexual appetites do not always stay "on par" between partners. Sometimes it is him, sometimes it is her, but it seems that it happens. Frequently.
Annoyed Opionion:
I really hate the women's "justification" when it is their drive that is lacking. Because it is NEVER their fault. He doesn't do this. He doesn't do that. And especially the whole, "he doesn't wine and dine me" thing.
Yeah, been married (or together) more than five years? Try and "wine and dine her" and you will get... a night in a restaurant. Try then to be "romantic" and you will either get the "giggles" (because of how silly the "mating game" seems when you have been with somebody for a long period of time) or you get an annoyed women that complains, "What... is that the only reason you took me out?" With women like that it is a no-win situation. And for once, I would like one of them to admit it.
Men on the other hand are quite simple. If they are not interested in sex it usually means either a. he is bored with his current relationship or b. he is interetested in something (or someone) else. Often tied with "a" but not always. or c. he is just so sick and tired of trying, he has just given up.
april-
It definitely seems that sex is the carrot in the stick and carrot routine. Do this and I'll give it to you.
emily-
I'm sorry about the constant rejection. That takes its toll after awhile. It's interesting that you've improved after time spent in the relationship.
satan-
To me, it would seem normal to want sex more in a committed relationship. I think sex is better with someone I love. Your partner not valueing sex seems to be an oxymoron, but it is food for thought. It would seem that being with someone with a compatible sex drive would make for one less thing to fight about.
ch-
Whining about not being romantic is, well, whining. Being a long-term committed relationship takes a little bit of the romance out of it. Living with someone day-in-and-day-out can do that. I think most guys aren't up for 2X times a day sex. However, 2X a week is a little low. Less than that is way to low. As far as the woman wanting to be chased, yeah I'd say she does. The problem is that women tend to start wanting to control their man's life. Therefore, every decision seems to be second guessed. Taking a woman out for dinner isn't as much fun because of the complaining (see joe flirt's comment). Also, in Sybil's case we eat out nearly every meal (not breakfast...she isn't conscious). There is nothing romantic about eating out then. It means I have to be more creative.
anteros-
Aw, there's the rub.
cassee01-
I'm not sure supply and demand works. I think it CH was onto something. For women sex is very much a part of who they are. A bad day translates into no sex because women, typically, cannot turn that switch off. Also, since women like to control much of their man's life and he tends to rebel, I think this can build up resentment for the woman. This translates to no sex for the man.
joe flirt-
I'm sure that people in a relationship will have periods where the sex drives are mismatched. That's normal. The sharp decline in this study is more than a normal, temporary misalignment of sex drives. Blaming the man for one's lack of interest in sex is immature. For one thing, let it go. Whatever little thing he does that annoys you, let it go. You'll both feel better. If women want to be chased, let the man be the man. He isn't a child. Let him have more sex, his feelings for you will be more positive, he'll forget the petty annoyances, and you'll get someone chasing you around. Everyone wins.
All-
This post and my comment are, naturally, a generalization. Satan and Emily can testify to their situation being different than the norm. I believe that men, typically, want to have sex more often and more creatively than women. I think there are many studies to back that up.
You didn't get flamed hardly at all!
No fair.
You should have suggested that maybe the sexual economy would improve if prostitution were legalized. Married women would not have quite as much leverage. I certainly think massage parlors with "happy endings" should be legalized albeit taxed and regulated.
I want to be one of the inspectors.
D.
digger jones-
The problem is using sex as a weapon. Having prostitution might definitely alter the supply and demand of sex. However, if one wants sex, there are ways to get it without paying money. Most of the time the cost exceeds that of money.
There is quite a funny moment in a Woody Allen movie, where the man says "But I've never paid for sex", and the prostitute says "Honey, you only think you haven't!"
I couldn't agree more with your statement about how 2x week is too low. Now I just need to get my partner to see that variations on that theme like 2x a year (we went several years of 2-3 times a year, would you believe!) are also too low :-)
I've extended your comments (and mine) into a full-blown post that might apply to a HL/LL situation. But it's purely from an economic vantage point.
D.
This sounds like relationship counseling with my wife all over again...
I remember before we got married, my wife was insatiable and unstoppable in bed. If anything, I was almost intimidated by her sexually, because I fell in love with her and cared about her deeply so soon into our relationship that I thought that if I couldn't keep up with her she'd just burn right ahead of me and find someone else. But literally hours after I put that ring on her finger, things nosedived. Her libido didn't drop; it crashed through the floor, burrowed into the ground and hid under a layer of bedrock. I was so stunned by it I didn't know what to do for the first six months. I had never seen that kind of behaviour out of anyone, and especially her. We talked about it a lot, and she just didn't see it. My wife is a notoriously poor liar and terrible at covering up the truth, but she honestly didn't see that going from sex 5x a week to once a month was a problem. She thought it was quite normal. Once she even said to me "We're married now, married people don't do that sort of thing..."(!)
I wined her. I dined her. I thought up increasingly elaborate ways to romance her. Not only to get into her pants, but that was at least part of my motivation, to be honest. If anything, that only drove her libido deeper into the ground. It got so bad that if there was even a hint that I wanted to be intimate with her, all of the sudden she'd be "nauseaous" or "itchy" or all of the sudden we had to balance the household budget or write a letter to her sister. The only time she showed any kind of flashes of her old self was when one weekend after no sex for six weeks, I got fed up and slept at a friend's house for a weekend. I didn't and to this day haven't cheated on her, but to this day she thinks I had. We had the most mind-blowing sex after I got home. But things slipped back.
What do I make of that? The relationship was in danger, and she reacted in the way she thought that she could keep me. She had even said at one point that I could go ahead and find someone else to fuck, as long as I came home and stayed with her.
That was when I phoned a relationship counselor. I won't go into too many details about our sessions, but basically what came of it was her attitude that she no longer "had" to have sex with me in order to keep me around. For her, the sensation of sex was as good as it ever was, but the value of sex in the larger sense of our relationship was devalued and therefore no longer interesting.
What we both had to do was to understand that sex is a cornerstone of a relationship. It is not the entire relationship by any means, but without it, you don't really have a marriage. You have a financial arrangement.
So in our particular case, I think the S&D theory has a little weight to it. But I think there are so many other factors that go into it, that it is only part of the equation, and certainly not the source of everybody's sexual dysfunction.
Interesting comments.
I think if a husband could keep it up for more than 60 seconds, his wife would have a reason to go to bed
with him.
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