Wednesday, August 23, 2006

Adam Smith Would be Proud

Digger posted his thoughts about supply and demand and how it relates to sex. I think it succinctly describes what happens to a lot of guys. In a word: if a guy wants regular, exciting sex, don't get married. Although Sybil doesn't have libido issues, she's pretty boring in bed. Whereas, she used to be a hot, little vixen, now, she wants me to do all of the work, yet respect her boundaries. How fun. In my case, the supply is there, but it is of lower quality. I'm paying more now for sex than I ever had. It's shoddy workmanship. Made in China (that's funny: Sybil is Chinese).

I try to look at the bright side of things. After all, that's all I can do. My sex life isn't as bad as Digger's: non-existent. Although there too many boundaries, my sex life doesn't have to be scheduled like FTN's. In my case what used to be a Ritz cracker is now just a plain ol' saltine. I've tried the spicing things up. I've asked Sybil about her fantasies. She doesn't have any. So she says. I've tried taking the initiative to only be rebuffed. But, I'm trying to maintain a positive outlook. No matter how bad things are for a person, there's always someone else that has it worse. Besides, what else would I blog about?

With everything Sybil and I have been through, I have, generally, lost a lot of interest in sex. I don't know if it's living with her, work, kids, or what. It may be my deep seeded resentment of her for the emotional roller coaster ride. For example, last night I was feeling a little amorous. As we were getting into bed, there was an issue with one of my pillow cases. I had not put it on to Sybil's specifications. She jerked it away, adjusted the pillow case, placed it back, and admonished me for accepting less than perfect. It's a PILLOW CASE. The damned thing will be maladjusted by me sleeping on it. Anyway, there went those desires right out the window.

17 comments:

Christian Husband said...

You gotta be careful. Digger's post was inspired by mine, but I absolutely disagree with his analysis. It's too emotionless. There is so much more there.

Your advice: if a guy wants regular, exciting sex, don't get married.

My advice: if ALL a guy wants is regular, exciting sex than don't get married. Marriage ought to be based on more than just that. When based on the right things, the regular, exciting sex can be there. But it won't be there with ANY single woman -- whether you are married to her or not -- if you aren't treating her as more than a supplier of sex. If that's all you want then good luck getting it.

So Gone Over You said...

I don't like that generalization man. Especially when you've run into so many women on here (myself included) who are/were the ones in the relationship not getting their fill of varied, exciting sex.

I can, however, understand how living with Sybil would make your drive diminish.

aphron said...

ch-
I agree that a relationship built only on sex will not last. Even in my younger days, I had the wisdom (?) to see that. However, the problem is the change that occurs. As two people come closer through being together and living together for an extended period of time, wouldn't sex become better? If the sex is better, may be less frequent is ok. Boiling it down to economics may seem a little harsh. That doesn't make it less possible. I can't speak for Digger regarding him treating Arwyn as a "supplier of sex."

In my case, I do not. Although I've tried to your advice on picking and choosing my battles and it has smoothed things somewhat, Sybil's attitude hasn't changed.

so gone-
I have no answer for you. It seems ridiculous to me that a man would not want exciting sex, especially with the woman he professes to love. Although these last few posts may be generalizations, I dare say the number of men going without or with reduced rations are about what the survey indicated. Yes, I know there are exceptions to the rule (you for example). Generalizations are...general. Stereotypes may not be attractive, but they aren't always inacurrate.

Christian Husband said...

You said, "Sybil's attitude hasn't changed."

Give it time, man, give it time. She has to learn to trust it. OK, so she wants your pillow case on a certain way. So what? It's certainly weird, but women are a mystery, man. Learn to be entertained by it, but if that's what she wants then give it to her. Let her see it long enough to trust it. It might take a week or a month or a year or who knows how long, but once she does trust it... Well, things will be better won't they?

Emily said...

Poor Digger. It seems like lately everyone is comparing themselves to his situatio nand feeling lucky in comparison.

But it must be no joke living with this level of control freakery. I think that might bother me more than the sex issue. I just HATE being controlled.

Digger Jones said...

"In a word: if a guy wants regular, exciting sex, don't get married."

Um...yes, that is a lot more succinct than anything *I'VE* ever written!

I wrote it emotionless on purpose, because I wanted to push the envelope and see where it went. As it turns out, it hits fairly close on many levels for many people. It in no way whatsover reflects the ideal. But it bears a strong resemblance to reality. I also attempted to make it as gender neutral as possible, but certain bits couln't be helped.

But the grandest of grandest questions it this: Assuming " if a guy wants regular, exciting sex, don't get married" is the prevailing belief; just what exactly do I tell my two boys as they grow up and begin dating? Telling them to wait until marriage seems like selling them a totally false bill of goods!

The temptation is to tell them to get all they can while single; they'll have plenty of time for celibacy once they get married with a family of their own!
D.

Anonymous said...

I am with So Gone, not a fan of the generalizations. It makes me (and in turn, my husband) feel weird and downright abnormal that our roles are reversed. I would give my right arm for some more exciting sex (WITH MY HUSBAND) and he can't seem to care less. In our case, I think it boils down to the fact that he can have sex with me whenever he wants it, and while he might not be turning me down, he certainly isn't the primary initiator, especially of anything other than our norm.

I dunno, maybe marriage IS to blame.

Emily said...

Well, I don't think it can be marriage. My partner and I aren't married, we are still living in sin (not too much sinning going on, though!) and yet there are still a lot of issues in common.

FTN said...

Since everyone else seems to be interested in this quote... "If a guy wants regular, exciting sex, don't get married..."

What about those of us that didn't have sex before we got married? Where does that leave us?

Perhaps ignorance is bliss?

aphron said...

ch-
I have given it time: 13 years. The first mosquito bite is a nuisance, but the second or third become almost intolerable.

emily-
Sybil has definite control issues. Although I'm not mental health expert, I believe she has borderline OCD tendencies.

digger jones-
I don't know. I have two sons too. What do I tell them? What do I tell my daughter. I'm not sure anything we could say would sway their minds. I'd heard about the marriage equals sex death thing way before getting married. It can't happen to me. Sybil is into it big time, right? It happened anyway. When a person is love, he/she cannot be dissuaded from following a course of action. Denial is a powerful thing.

tajalude-
I know what I wrote is a generalization, a stereotype even. There is are exceptions to every rule. That doesn't necessarily invalidate the rule. It's kind of like a "rule of thumb". Most guys would want to have a wife with your libido and set of boundaries. I still think most wives aren't that way.

emily (again)-
If I read your blog correctly, your significant other has health issues. That can play a role. Also, his mental state can be a huge factor. I've recently noticed changes in my libido because of Sybil's outbursts. I would've never thought that possible.

ftn-
Boy, you missed out. Just kidding. I may have posted a long time ago about what you're saying. I do beleive ignorance is bliss. I wish I had waited. Not for any religious reasons, but because I might not have these built up expectations. I think that is the rub with premarital experiences.

Thanks to everyone for the posts. I know this is a generalization. I did not mean to offend anyone. I am writing from my point of view. Of late, I am noticing a slight mysoginist bent in my thinking that I am grappling with.

So Gone Over You said...

I still have a hard time with what you wrote, even though I know you aren't trying to offend anyone.

My thing is this - not everyone's wife has turned into a low libido, cold bitch after marriage. I know this for fact. I think that if you realize that sometimes people just change (regardless of whether or not a marriage certificate has been issued), you can see the bigger picture. I highly doubt that the guys whose wives have "suddenly" turned cold didn't see some sort of signs prior to this (think of Digger's Top 10 Ways to Identify an LL Partner) or there wasn't something somewhere in the relationship that might have rubbed their partner the wrong way. Some women are great at holding grudges... and withholding sex. I highly doubt that every single guy who's wife isn't giving it up has been the perfect husband and that their relationship has been the perfect environment for a "perfect" sex life. Sorry, just not buying it.

I read an article in Self today about marriage/sex/intimacy, and the author wrote that she thought maybe more intimacy = less desire = sex. The more comfortable you are with someone, the more you care about their opinion, the less you want to be some sex freak. I don't know - that's a very brief summary of it anyways.

aphron said...

so gone-
I agree that there may be women that are using sex as a weapon to beat over their husbands' heads. Instead of confronting the problem head on, they choose a passive-aggressive stance. How is the husband supposed to be able to make ammends, if he doesn't know what he is doing is bothering his wife? Holding a grudge is hurts both people. Also, NO relationship is perfect. One has to ask:what is the goal? Is it to score points? Is it to exact revenge? Or, is it to try to not the little B.S. things stand in the way of a great marriage? Now, I'm not so naive to think that there aren't situations where the man isn't living up to his end of the bargain. He may be in a passive-aggressive role himself. I'm not letting him off the hook. All I am saying is that GENERALLY it is the wife that slows down. If it is because of some unresolved conflict, then resolve it. If the husband refuses to resolve it, stopping sex will not solve that problem. Changing the way the wife confronts the problem might. Also, if the husband confronts the wife and asks why and the wife answers with the usual "nothing is wrong," then how is that the husband's fault? I doubt many husbands are willing to live with the status quo and haven't confronted the wife about it.

My situation is unique. Sybil really isn't low libido. She's up tight and doesn't know how to loosen up and have fun. Our situation is small flair-ups that tend to lessen my desire (and her's). It's passive-aggressive on my part, because I didn't confront her about it. That's wrong of me.

I realize we are generalization waters. That doesn't make it less true that generally, wives tend to start complaining about their high libido husbands. The husbands' libido hasn't increased; it's the wives' that decreased. Like ALL generalizations, there are exceptions. It's like saying that men, generally, don't discuss their feelings. There are men that do, ad nauseum. The exceptions don't necessarily invalidate the general rule.

aphron said...

so gone-
I agree that there may be women that are using sex as a weapon to beat over their husbands' heads. Instead of confronting the problem head on, they choose a passive-aggressive stance. How is the husband supposed to be able to make ammends, if he doesn't know what he is doing is bothering his wife? Holding a grudge is hurts both people. Also, NO relationship is perfect. One has to ask:what is the goal? Is it to score points? Is it to exact revenge? Or, is it to try to not the little B.S. things stand in the way of a great marriage? Now, I'm not so naive to think that there aren't situations where the man isn't living up to his end of the bargain. He may be in a passive-aggressive role himself. I'm not letting him off the hook. All I am saying is that GENERALLY it is the wife that slows down. If it is because of some unresolved conflict, then resolve it. If the husband refuses to resolve it, stopping sex will not solve that problem. Changing the way the wife confronts the problem might. Also, if the husband confronts the wife and asks why and the wife answers with the usual "nothing is wrong," then how is that the husband's fault? I doubt many husbands are willing to live with the status quo and haven't confronted the wife about it.

My situation is unique. Sybil really isn't low libido. She's up tight and doesn't know how to loosen up and have fun. Our situation is small flair-ups that tend to lessen my desire (and her's). It's passive-aggressive on my part, because I didn't confront her about it. That's wrong of me.

I realize we are generalization waters. That doesn't make it less true that generally, wives tend to start complaining about their high libido husbands. The husbands' libido hasn't increased; it's the wives' that decreased. Like ALL generalizations, there are exceptions. It's like saying that men, generally, don't discuss their feelings. There are men that do, ad nauseum. The exceptions don't necessarily invalidate the general rule.

Lori said...

The pillow case thing....sounds like she wasn't interested in sex at all...and that was her way of telling you....With me...I know when hubby is feeling it....and him with me!!!

Have a great day!!!

JessiferSeabs said...

SO GONE, I totally read that Self article and actually, thought of you (on the stairmaster, way to go me), because your situation is so similar to mine (or it was, aynway).

Anyway, just wanted to agree that I'd say the majority of my female friends, married or not, are not getting as much sex from their men as they would like. I will also add that most of us are more driven, ambitious, and have had greater career-success than our partners. Coincidence? I don't think so. But the issue is that i don't mind being the breadwinner, and neither do any of my female friends. Aphron, obviously this isn't your case as Sybil doesn't work outside the home, but I know often we feel like "Hey, if you're so damn emasculated, then step up to the plate, nobody's stopping you."

Anonymous said...

All of this is so confusing to me that I at last had to respond. My sister first alerted me to this: Blogs by and for people that are sexually and romantically frustrated. (As she is too.)

My heart goes out to you all but I'm so confused, as I said. I've been married over half my life; I adore my husband and we literally can't get enough of each other.

With children, in-laws, money, and all that, we have never stopped "getting weak in the knees" with each other. He can melt my heart by the way he smiles just as strongly as he did over twenty years ago! I didn't marry him for a his money or job or to be a good provider. I didn't even care much about kids, even though we did have two. I just wanted him. He wanted me.

We have had a lot of adventures over the years, playful and fun and sexy and a bit dangerous. The years have only given us time to really trust and know each other. I wish I could figure out what is so wrong here for you all. It's mysterious.

Our two boys know from their own eyes, that a couple grows closer and more loving...not just from us. From some of our relatives and friends too, so it's possible.

Maybe it's lifestyle or people marrying people that didn't truly love? I adore my husband and it's easy to make love. He loves me back and we have planned times to be alone, spontaneous times where things just happen...I love to kiss him from the back and surprise him. This is after twenty something years...I thought it was easy.

Anyway, I wish you all the best, I do know having children around is one of the biggese obstacles and even though we love our children dearly, they need to know and see that their parents are close and loving and the world to each other.

Best of luck to you.
Melanie

Roy said...

Melanie,

Congratulations... you are one of the truly lucky ones. For a lot of us, though, much different. These blogs are about trying to piece together "what went wrong" or simply to rant.

Anyway, I think Lori hit the nail right on the head. My wife does this all the time to avoid intimacy. She'll start talking about work, family etc even when I'm doing something as forward as undressing her or fondling her. It's a passive way of saying "I'm not in the mood." which is, of course, very confusing to you which starts the resentment cycle all over again.

By the way, I love your blog. It's inspired me to write about my own experiences. Thank you!