This post brings up an interesting dichotomy in my marriage. Sybil is much more...shall we say...particular on how things are done. If I am folding clothes and do not fold UNDERSHIRTS to her specifications, then she gets her feelings hurt. If I am loading the dishwasher and do not PREWASH the dishes before washing them, then she gets her feelings hurt. I remember the time that Son #1, a friend, friend's son and I were going backpacking. Sybil was still sound asleep, when we left. Needing a spatula, I grabbed what was the oldest, most used one to take along. About 45 minutes into the drive, I get a phone call from an irate Sybil because I grabbed her FAVORITE spatula. Hell, I didn't know she knew how to cook (since we eat out ~99% of the time), much less had a favorite spatula.
Reading Amanda's post made me think of how things will go with her boyfriend. Since he will not do anything to her specifications, she will nag at him for not doing a good enough job. She will forget that he is trying to please her, and she will only focus on what a moron he is for forgetting that the proper way to fold clothes is her way. Said boyfriend will decide it isn't worth the aggravation and quit doing it. This isn't being passive-aggressive. There have been many "discussions" about these certain things. In order to maintain some semblance of peace, the boyfriend will, simply, stop.
Amanda will not see herself as being that anal retentive. She, instead, will focus only on the boyfriend and his apparent need to make her angry. As an aside, no man purposefully tries to make his wife/girlfriend angry, playful jibing, maybe but not angry. As time marches on Amanda will come to feel that her boyfriend is lazy and doesn't want to help out because he expects her to do everything. They will fall into the cliche of the woman doing all of the housework. Her resentment towards him will grow. Eventually, they will break up.
A few questions:
- Why is HER way the ONLY way?
- Is there no credit for the attempt or is it pass/fail?
- Does Amanda (and women like her) need to grow up?
13 comments:
I think this is a common problem in relationships and it cuts both ways. I have a friend (friend) who is not allowed (like she cares) to mow and edge the lawn b/c she does it wrong.
My husband almost always makes the bed b/c he doesn't like the way I make it. (Have at 'er!)
But, I do think we women tend to screw things up with the "my way" rule -- not just with our spouses but with our children. (Children will eventually stop folding towels if mom goes back and refolds them the right way.) My towels remain sloppily folded b/c my kids will eventually get better at it if allowed to.
I wonder if Sybil is getting upset b/c she sees "the job not done her way" as a statement that 1)her way is wrong 2)not caring about the effort she puts into her "jobs" 3)a reflection that you didn't notice something about her (her favorite spatula).
I know the area where I most get myself in trouble in my relationship with my spouse is how to take care of the kids. I forget that there is more than just my way of doing things.
Thanks for the reminder.
Let's see . . . from Amanda's post:
"I know I'm the one that really wants the clean apartment but I don't want to do all of the cleaning by myself. I want him to take pride in his surroundings . ."
So, Amanda wants a clean apartment, but doesn't think she should have to do the work to get it? And she actually wants him to be a different person than he is?
Recipe for success, this one.
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I just think Sybil has control issues. It's hard for me to really see where she's coming from when every little thing is a national disaster. You must be exhausted, Aphron.
Very simple eqution: One can not win frequently unless the rules are such that they favor the contestant. To put it another way, we want to be right and it's much easier to make up our own rules to make that happen. Love your story about folding laundry. Been married to Queenie for 21 years now an I have not folded any of her laundry in just about 17 years and seldom fold the kids laundry because I do it 'wrong'. Every time. So I fold my own. Period. Fortunately I do not run the machine 'wrong' so she does get benefit of all sorts of help in that department but folding is out of the question because it causes a rift and Queenie won't get over it so I choose to abstain. BTW- Even when I fold to her specifications, there is always the question of neatness or order of folding (shirts before socks of course) or stacking, all of which must also meet her rules. Every so often she wishes I'd relent but I'd rather she be disappointed than angry.
Amanda needs to go pound salt, as does anyone who wants help but requires exacting technique and specifications. But, like you note, she'll likely never see the real problem. And perhaps Sybil will never. Queenie tolerates my idiosyncrasy but does not understand it. She believes I'm just being stubborn and she has a half doezen friends and relatives to back her up on that. Including Mum, who taught her to be like this.
Sorry I dn't have any help or answer for you. Just a sympathetic ear. And you can borrow my favorite spatula next time, no charge.
When I was younger I was a bit that way about things, but I found it absolutely exhausting. Now I follow the don't-sweat-the-small-stuff-and-it's-almost-all-small-stuff rule. My blood pressure is lower than it used to be too. Yes, these people (often of the female variety, but not exclusively) need to lighten up and appreciate that the other person is attempting a good thing.
Sorry, neglected to answer the questions:
Why is HER way the ONLY way? Because, OK? Just because.
Is there no credit for the attempt or is it pass/fail?
Defiinitely pass/fail. Grading is far too objective.
Does Amanda (and women like her) need to grow up?
Yeah. Or break up, either one. Nagger's choice.
bccr11-
I think it is different, when a person recognizes that he/she wants something done in a certain way and does it. A person that wants something done in a certain way and gets angry when it isn't is different.
satan-
Yep, Sybil has control issues. She can be difficult to work with because she has to have everything done in a certain way.
xi summit-
There is no real answer to the problem.
trueself-
If more people practiced that philosophy, we'd be a happier race. Alas, it isn't going to happen. I had that conversation with Sybil once. She felt that paying attention to every single detail would help take care of the big issues. I told her it seems too exhausting. We never reached a compromise.
xi summit-
Ditto.
I see both sides of the coin on this, which probably speaks to the fact that I do that a lot with my husband.
I have made my peace with certain things, like the fact that he sets the dish rack on the counter instead of the other side of the sink, or that he takes 45 minutes to wash the dishes that were required to make dinner for two. Some things I am unable to compromise on and therefore do not ask him to do, and those are mostly to do with laundry. What's up with us women and the laundry?
I know it's foolish to expect help with something and then be surprised when your helper quits when you criticize their technique. But at the same time, there's doing something differently, and then there's doing something WRONG. When my husband cleans, he doesn't actually clean so much as he puts things away. If cleaning were left to him, your feet would be permanantly glued to the floor for the nastiness he'd let stay on it. Cleaning, in my opinion, is not optional. I will not live in a stye. But I will also not do everything simply because he doesn't think it's "necessary" to clean the sinks.
For us, it has been realizing there are things I do better, and things he does better. And then there are things I will do, and things he will do, and we find a compromise somewhere in between.
And I always make sure he's not looking when I refold the towels.
Goodness, I have certainly posted on this enough myself (from the other side) on more than one occassion.
If I get a list of 10 "to dos" and I complete 9 of them, I didn't do "anything"
If it is not done her way, it is "not done" (pass/fail).
With control issues, there really is no gray area. There is no compromise. And to be honest, I rarely think there is ever a solution. Because, there is ALWAYS something else. So if it is not cleaning, it is something else.
And to answer your questions. No, no partial credit. And women like Amanda will never "wake up" because anybody who disagrees with them simply "doesn't understand what they are going through."
I think we generally all agree, Aphron, that controlling and nagging are bad things. Sybil's issues aren't going to resolve themselves. But in trying to think about this with an open mind, here's what I came up with.
For some people, the fact that they don't do things as well as someone else gives them an excuse not to do it.
"I'm not as good at getting the kids to bed... They actually *stay* in bed for you. So you do it."
"You can get all the laundry downstairs in one trip, and it would take me three. You do it."
I'm not saying that this is what happens all the time in my own marriage, but I know it happens plenty. And this isn't just a "marriage" thing. People do this in the workplace, too.
"I hear you are the expert in this software. Can you do this work for me, since I don't know how?"
I realize this isn't exactly what you are talking about, but it is another aspect to think about. Obviously, nagging and complaining is bad. But yet in many things, there is a right way (or at least a clear-cut "better" way) to do some things. But it shouldn't be a punishment to the person that is doing it correctly, assuming they aren't being a nag about it.
Granted, folding undershirts a specific way is silly. And the spatula thing is completely ridiculous.
taja-
It really isn't a question of not doing it or doing it incorrectly. It's a question of not doing to Sybil's standards. I can fold shirt just fine. If all a person hears is criticism, then why would that person continue to try?
joe flirt-
Not doing anything is apropos. Since Sybil is a SAHM, she tends to think that work is some sort of escape from the day-to-day drudgery. She'll say that it's stressful, but she won't acknowledge how stressful my job is. Not to go into details, but my job involves maintaining the wellbeing of others, yet she compared that to being as stressful as laying hardwood floors.
ftn-
I agree we use that cop out to get out of learning something or trying something. It's easier to say, "you're the expert, so I'll let you do it." That's not the case here. I am trying to Sybil, but I am unable to meet her impossible standards. Instead of seeing a different way of doing something, she sees it has some sort of personal attack.
Woman + Man = This discussion.
It started for me about 17 years ago. Folding Towels. I folded. She refolded. Then the dishwasher. I loaded. She reloaded.
Then I said WTF and didn't do a damn thing around the house for 15 years. Or so she says.
Can someone enlighten me on this 'correct' way to fold towels? How is this an issue? They go into the linen closet anyway and who cares if they get a bit wrinkled? They are towels, yes? I feel like I'm missing a big aspect of womanhood by not caring about this.
satan-
Apparently, you haven't the matter enough thought. By folding the towels a certain way, they will all look the same and occupy roughly the same space. If one person folds the towels one way and another folds a different way, the linen closet will look chaotic. Also, by folding the towels a certain way, you aren't asserting control. Today's woman must be in control.
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