My apologies to Monty Python.
What is the state of masculinity in the Western world today? Is society becoming more and more feminized?
I ask these questions because I really want to know. In generations past, did men allow their wives/girlfriends to hit them over the head with their emotions? Were women allowed to express themselves through the dramatic? Did husbands/boyfriends put up with women's shenanigans? Do men today have the cojones to stand up to their wives/girlfriends, or do they take the path of least resistance? Are men afraid of the hysteria that many women seem to be able to drum up at will? If men were to stand firm, would women realize that hysterical rantings will not advance their argument?
Most men use their father as a role model. How the father reacted towards the mother may determine how the son will react towards his wife. In my case, father tended to be passive to my mother, who was domineering and a lot like Sybil. I cannot tell you how many times Sybil has remarked how annoying my mother is, and I cannot tell you how many times I have had to bite my tongue and keep from telling her how similar they are. If all a boy sees is a father that bows his head to his domineering mother, then that boy may grow to be a man that will bow his head to a domineering woman. The cycle will be repeated.
What about the man that was raised by his mother? What male role models does he have? How will he cope with a woman's hysterical rantings? I suspect that he will be even more misogynistic. He may come to view all women with a jaundiced eye. Since my parents remain married to this day, I do not have any experience in this situation. My guess is that either he will shirk from his husbandly/fatherly responsibilities, and/or he will have a dim view of women in general.
Sadly, we see it even in powerful, supposedly, confident women. Remember Hilary Clinton's little break down? If a man had an emotional breakdown, everyone would rightly be questioning his leadership abilities. Like many women, she used her emotions as a tool. And it worked like a charm. Like so many husbands/boyfriends that are faced with a similar situation, the voters rewarded her with more votes. Instead of rolling their eyes at a woman's hysterics, they voted for her. Again, like so many husbands/boyfriends facing a similar situation, her tears were rewarded with a kind of a head bowed, glum, "yes, dear." If she is one of the most powerful women in the country, is this what we have to look forward to?
I don't have any answers. Like everyone else, I am tainted by my own life's experiences. My life has been filled with women that use their hysterics to create drama and keep everyone off balance. I mean, come on, how many men create an hour-long fight on how to fold undershirts?
The demand of the loveless and the self-imprisoned that they should be allowed to blackmail the universe: that till they consent to be happy (on their own terms) no one else shall taste joy: that theirs should be the final power; that Hell should be able to veto Heaven. The Great Divorce. C.S. Lewis
10 comments:
Then there's the man who grows up with a domineering father and a meek, submissive mother. He grows up hating his father for treating him like shit and saying things like "I should divorce your mother just to get away from you." He vows to never be like his asshole father. He also doesn't want a woman who is a doormat, he wants someone who can stand up for herself.
Then he gets married to a strong woman, someone very different from his mother. But over time, he becomes his father. Domineering, belittling, critical, and just plain mean. And that strong woman he married gets pounded down emotionally so that all remains is a pile of mush. She goes along to get along and even begins to doubt her own intelligence and abilities. She learns to never show her emotions for she will be criticized and belittled for having them. The only acceptable emotion is anger and he is the only one allowed to express it. And she grows to hate him.
Funny how we become exactly what we never wanted to be.
bunny-
That situation sounds vaguely familiar. Both situations lead to anger, resentment, etc. Emotional abuse is insidious.
No answer for you, man, other than there's nothing new under the sun. Every situation is a dynamic and, with the exception of personal detailing, has already been played out before. The question remains one of personal choice with th added complication of another party who also has personal choice. Will I choose to make the same mistakes I've seen done by others or will I learn to rise above that and live better than that, conduct myself better than that? Will my spouse choose to make some of the same mistakes she has witnessed or will she rise above that and conduct herself better than that? When I choose to repeat someone else's mistakes how will she respond to me? How will I respond to her mistakes?
I've lived under the roof of a Dominant/passive resistance dynamic and later a reformed dominant household, part-time in another dominant/passive dynamic as well as a dominant/dominant dynamic. In each case there were cues I learned that I can use in my current relationship to keep myself in perspective. Not saying I usually DO, just that I CAN. That I SHOULD.
Like it or not, I can not change my spouse. Thus it is that I strive to stand firm on issues that matter and strive to step aside on trivial matters. On how to fold a shirt? I strive to do it her way or, if I can not master it to her desire, I don't do it. For me, that is far too trivial a thing to argue about so I just don't. And if a trivial issue is pressed I neither agree nor disagree, in fact typically I simply do not engage. Even if that infuriates her. Because it is still my conduct that I am primarily responsible for and at the moment my children are watching. Intently. To see what is right and what is not. And I can not teach them anything I don't live. Well anyhow, that's more than 'nuff from me.
As the great Tyler Durden once said, We're a generation of men raised by women. I'm wondering if another woman is really the answer we need.
Of course, then, there was also a bunch of homoerotic undertones in that movie, so, uh, let's move on.
I think in many cases, regardless of our heritage, people just need to learn some assertiveness. I'm often amazed at the crap that people put up with. I think the opposite of "avoider" isn't necessarily "confronter," it's just being assertive.
I dealt with the female manipulation drama when I was dating girls in high school. I wouldn't put up with it at all now, so I'm lucky that I married someone who isn't really like that at all.
Of course, my wife's mom is somewhat domineering in her own marriage, so it's actually kind of interesting... I could see some tendencies creeping up in Autumn from time to time.
I can see all sides of everyones comments here... I do have to agree though, that it does seem to be more of 'the norm' than in previous decades, where a lot of woman do hold the upper hand. A couple of my sisters have that unique talent and I only can shake my head at what their husbands won't do for them, be it by command or not. Unbelievable.
We are a product of our environment and breaking the cycles seems to offer some hope in changing it.
What we witness can be some measure of moral education - I will always have to live with myself.
I think at the individual level, things are not that much different than in the past.
At a societal level though, things seem vastly different. I read a feminist blog asking about hitting men and hundreds of women commented that they did, with many of them bragging about it. I cannot recall or think of any instances where men felt that bragging about hitting women was socially acceptable.
My marriage is a mirror image of that of his parents. My husband avoids, sulks, and deflects. He does not like to fight, he does not like conflict, and he will do whatever I say, if only so he can use it against me later.
I have had some surprisingly in-depth conversations with my MIL about why her marriage dissolved. And hearing her talk about how it was, how they were together, makes me sick. Because we're exactly, exactly, exactly the same. Strange how you can have a negative role model with a bad ending and still want to reprise the role, huh??
There has to be some middle ground with how a man can appreciate and respect an independent woman, and how a strong and independent woman can accept that a man is DIFFERENT than she is, and that by degrading and emotionally bullying him, she is thereby beating the very qualities out of him that define him as a man.
I guess it goes without saying that bullying, emotional manipulation, hysteria, etc are bad things, whether they are from men or women. Personally, I've experienced them from both sexes - the men more physical, the women more verbal, but frankly, neither were much fun. It usually has more to do with basic temperament/parents etc than with gender.
But I am just wondering where you are in all this, Aphron? Why are you allowing yourself to be bullied and hounded in this way? How are you going to teach your wife (or anyone else) that you can't be dealt with in this way?
I am just wondering what would happen if, instead of letting yourself get sucked into an hour-long argument, you said, "I'll talk to you about this when you can be civil" and walked out of the room/house if she wouldn't stop.
My own partner is inclined to unreasonable temper and wrath. We have developed a way of saying, "You're upset about this now. How about we talk about this at 6pm instead?" It seems to help, because he is not being ignored but he is being left to lose some steam before the discussion.
Don't take the line of least resistance. Stand up for yourself. It will be better for you, and better for her, too, in the long run.
All-
Thanks for the comments. I was going to comment on the comments (nice, huh?). Instead, I'll be writing another post.
Me I was raised by a domineering single mother. Later I went and married a woman much like her. Currently, I'm divorced, I won custody of my children largely because the ex was using them to punish me and my mother was screaming in the other ear that I can't let this go on.
Currently my mother and I are getting along a lot better, but she still interferes a bit too much. My ex and I were getting along rather well until just the other day, when she threatened to take me back to court. Fuhuck! That completely blew my mind. The divorce took years to complete, with one bitch in one ear and another on the other side. I had several heavy panic attacks over the course of a couple of days. I know that I need a therapist now, I can't possibly deny it.
The first therapist I found (female) just so happened to be a strong-willed right winger, largely adherant to the "tender years" argument of child custody. I could have puked on her right then and there. Neither my mother nor my ex-wife deserve such preference based on their anatomy alone.
As far as mysogyny goes, you're quite right. I have a very difficult time with women at this point. In fact my relationships typically don't last past the first argument. I own my emotions, don't participate in arguments and politely tell these women to fuck off. However, my general opinion of women is rather low. My buddy tells me his wife hits him, I tell him to get a restraining order and get the kids. She wants a kid, get snipped and don't tell her. Do I feel guilty? Not really, mysandry is far more common than mysogyny is at this point in the game.
One day, after I get my marbles back (reference to my brains, not my balls), I'd like to become a father's rights advocate. Ideally, I support joint physical custody, because I believe it makes "Parental Alienation Syndrome" much more difficult for a psycho b*tch to pull off. Not that all perpetrators of PAS are women, but as a man, fighting this type of thing is very difficult with rampant hatred of men, the "tender years" doctrine, and the ease with which women can abuse the law in order to torture her ex.
So, yeah, you're pretty insightful for a kid from a normal family, you ever considered psychology?
Post a Comment